On Men and Yaoi
Warning: yaoi be discussed here.
But Yaoi Press president Yamila Abraham posted to her blog about an e-mail she got from a bisexual guy who is into yaoi and doesn’t like the “by women for women” women’s-only-club feel the subgenre gets.
At first I’m inclined to say, “well, it IS.” Not that guys aren’t ALLOWED to like it - anyone who says as much is an idiot - but the fact of the matter is it IS almost always by women, and it IS created with women as the target market. Right?
But Abraham notes that 25-30% of her web orders for yaoi come from guys, which is quite a bit more than I would have expected. I certainly know a handful of guys into the stuff, but not that many. However, she also says that she has never had a gay guy not like yaoi, and I have also definitely known a few who thought it was terrible stuff.
So yeah, torn. I’ll repeat that I think trying to exclude male fans from yaoi is really stupid. But do they have a legitimate complaint when people market a genre created almost entirely by women for women as such? I dunno.
Give us _something_. Almost all hentai is marketed towards men anyway. In general If he prefers, there is always the ‘bara’ subgenre which I belive is supposed to be marketed towards men. (although I may be wrong)
Gah, why is Ohno-san’s (Genshiken) baldy fetish running through my mind now? I need to go take a brillo pad to my brain.
Well, again, I have nothing wrong with dudes liking stuff that’s marketed at women. But to be annoyed that it’s marketed at women seems kinda silly, doesn’t it?
Men who whine that they feel excluded just piss me off. Yaoi is for women, taht’s the truth. Nobody says t
hey can’t read it, but
don’t go bitch about people repeating the truth. There are comics for gay men in Japan different from Yaoi. There are also some yaoi fans who read them, but they don’t bitch and moan at how it’s so unfair that these comics are targeted at men… Also many men assume all Yuri is aimed at them. I never heard any female Yuri fans complain of that? If it contains sex, no matter if its about a man+woman, man+man or woman+woman, most men assume that it must be for them… I am 100% sure taht these whiners would not whine if Yaoi was marketed as gay manga for gay men, they would not say it’s unfair to exclude women… Also what pisses me off is dissing the Yaoi fangirls… But Yaoi fangirls are the one who created this genre and make all the manga that these whiners are in denial that they were not written for guys…
Well. I’m a gay guy in to general sci-fi and have recently been getting more in to Japan’s culture including fimes, Anime and Manga and through this, I have become aware of Yaoi. At first it all seemed strange but I was already aware of slash fiction so it kind of made sense.
As to the relative place of male ans female readers. I am delighted to hear that women write and read most Yaoi, including the explicit stuff, as it proves all this rubbish about women haveing no interest in erotic media false and selfishly, in a world were women enjoy male/male images, then my position in society as a member of that minority in more stable.
So, I think Yaoi actually could have an important role in greater tollerance for gay people generally. Which is great.
So Ladies, enjoy yourself, just like your boyfriends do with their lesbian porn!!
That said, I would just like to point out that, even though it is a largely female media form, it is based on gay men and their relationships and we do have an interest, as women do, in how we are represented. So, although it is your theatre where you ladies are the writers and the audience, please remember we are the “characters” on the stage and maintaining a littler respect for that would be welcome.
@Andy: Well, if you have any concerns for how homosexual men are represented in yaoi manga, I’m afraid that the people you’d have to talk to are the people who make the stuff more than the readers.
As for yaoi’s potential role in tolerance for homosexuals…well, if I were a gay man I’m not sure I’d depend on a genre of manga in which virtually all gay men are effeminate and slender and separated into two categories (”top” and “bottom”). It clearly helps women *like* the idea of gay men, but some yaoi fans have a remarkable lack of common sense as to how realistic yaoi is about depicting them.
In fact, my friend Jen at YaoiSuki has even argued that yaoi *isn’t* really about gay men. If you look at some of the darker shoujo manga, the girls often act exactly the same as the “bottom” characters in yaoi, especially in the actual sex scenes.
I’m not trying to diminish homosexuals in any way, but this IS a fair argument with regards to yaoi: In your average yaoi manga (and there are exceptions to prove the rule), the “bottom” character is more effeminate than the “top,” magically secrets some sort of lubricant as he gets aroused (a la the female genitalia), and also tends to be a bit more passive while the “top” character does his utmost to please the “bottom,” which is a stereotypically female role in sex. On top of that, the “bottom” character’s penis is usually considerably smaller than the “top’s” or not shown at all. There are, in all honesty, sex scenes in yaoi where you can’t even TELL that it’s two men instead of a man and a woman.
So I would be a bit cautious about setting yaoi up to be a tool of helping gay men break stereotypes and the like. Especially since in my experience very few women who are into yaoi are, or ever were, homophobic. And especially since straight guys tend, as I’ve said, to be petrified of the whole phenomenon. =P